GREATER AVENUES COMMUNITY COUNCIL Minutes
 Sept 5, 2001

Meeting called to order by Larry Rigby at 7:00 - Sweet Library

REPORTS: OLYMPICS - Peter Carroon: We (GACC) are hosting many events for the Olympics. You can call me or sign up on the Web. Open our Avenues Web site, click on the Olympics.

CITY COUNCIL - Tom Rogan: City Council: We are fine-tuning of our policy about vacating alleys. I will come back to you with a report on that. I'd like to thank the 5 candidates who are running for City Council for stepping up and going through a process that is not easy. Anyone who desires to run for office really should do it if the circumstances in your life permit you to do that. We owe them all a debt a gratitude for stepping up. New email information if you want to contact me between now and January. teefar@citycom.com. Also use City Council email address. Phone me there at 535-7600 or leave a message at my home here on 3rd Ave. ph: 335-2628.

POLICE: I would like to introduce you to Lyman Guest. He has been with the Police Dept for quite a while. Last month on the Avenues we had 2 aggravated assaults. A server for the Court system to serve small claims court papers. The person refused to open the door. They tried to leave a card, but the gentleman opened the door a crack and inserted a gun. He left and called police. A second took place when a woman and man tried to collect a drug debt, and took the man's rings off his fingers when he couldn't pay the debt. The third: a person was approached by two men, asked for money, ruffed him up when he had none. There was one reported sex assault between a separated husband and wife. There were 9 auto thefts; two were recovered stolen vehicles. One was a golf cart from the Little America Hotel and abandoned on someone's front lawn. Two were cars parked on the street; some had left a spare key in the car. Within12 hours it was recovered stripped on the West Side. We had 12 burglaries. 5 were from garages, none of which were secured. There were 37 car strips and prowls. Two churches were broken into with forced entries. Officer Guest has some tips to prevent car strips and thefts: People leave things in sight in their cars. Leave nothing visible, not even a sack or a box, no money in ashtrays. When car in garage, lock it.

SCHOOL BOARD - Karen Derrick. I have very bad news. Lowell is still slated for closure. I feel like crying. School District Superintendent will meet with faculty and parents. Many issues need to be resolved. We were very well represented by our legislature, but they were unsuccessful. I do not know the dates or timetable of closure. I think that it will be next year. My number is 355-8232; please call me if you have questions about closure. Please remember that school is in session; please drive 25, so we will not have any children killed like they had in Murray.

LEGISLATURE - Paula Julander: You should know how often and how well that Karen Derrick Represented you and spoke up on Lowell School yesterday. We are sorry about the closure. Legislature Redistricting is getting very hot and heavy. The districting committee is working on redistricting, and has made a plan to divide the Avenues, and put part of them in Bountiful District. As it stands we come down Victory Road and come to B Street and then to 13th and Avenues will be split. If any one has views or opinions on this issue, please come and speak up. Other Districts in our situation are doing the same. We need to keep the Avenues and Capitol Hill as one district. We need to go to Capitol Hill and speak. It starts at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow, and then we have school plans, and then the Senate Plans. I have no idea when we will discuss it and you could be heard. Call me at the Capitol and I could tell you on the agenda. Or give me your number and I will tell you where they are. We need to hear from some people on this issue of keeping our community from being divided. Friday they are meeting from 8 to 1:00 for a discussion of all plans, in any order. You can find the agenda and maps on the Web. www.le.state.ut.us. In the corner is a redistricting button to click.

PLANNING COMMISSION - Mary McDonald: we are looking at the idea of allowing artists to perform throughout the city, including parks. It allows artists and performers in the park between 8:00 am and 11:00 p.m. If you want to comment, see me afterwards.

STREET FAIR - Maureen Maus: It will be held a week from next Saturday. We will have 140 booths. It will be on 7th Avenue between I street and N street. Children's Parade at 9:00 a.m. We will have a clown. It will start at I street and will end at Lindsey Gardens. Kids can dress up and bring scooters and pets, or what ever for the Parade. On the raffle: We have over a hundred prizes, restaurants, bed and breakfasts, etc. We need to sell tickets, $1 dollar each or 6 for $5 dollars. Come get packets from me, with a list of prizes. Sell them at your work. Larry: This is a premier fair. A great place to spend the day, great food, and entertainment. Please grab a packet of raffle tickets from Maureen.

CANDIDATES: Will come up in alphabetical order. They will take five minutes to introduce themselves. Then I (Chair Larry Rigby) will give them some of your questions, and they can answer the questions in one minutes. I will be the timekeeper. Then we will have them all stand behind the podium, and each answer the questions that I will give them.

PHIL CARROLL: I first came to the Avenues when I attended graduate school. Then I married and we bought a home on G Street and restored it. I am an attorney. I have been involved in Low Cost Housing, particularly for seniors. I have been involved for the past 20 years in the GACC. I was first traffic committee, and then became the President of the GACC. At that point, we changed the by-laws so that the Board no longer made all the decisions, but they would be made here in the meeting, which is more fair. One of the thing I have learned is that if you give people a chance to speak and listen well, you can find a solution for the problem. We need people to work with the Community and have consensus, and have a "Bottom-up, not a "Top-down" approach to government. 30 years ago we decided to down size some sections of city, and we have now some wonderful places to live. I love this Neighborhood. This is my home. I would like to represent you.

PETER CAROON: I want to thank my wife and daughter Sophie for helping me with this campaign. While I have been campaigning, I have been asked 3 questions: 1) Why are you running for office. I love this area. We have everything we could want in a neighborhood. I have enjoyed very much working with the Board and would like to maintain the good things we have here. 2) I see some things I would like to see improved. 3) What Party are you with? This is a Nonpartisan race. The issues I support are Democratic, but they are really neighborhood issues. I would like to see the schools open. They mean safer streets; they help maintain property values. We need to protect our foothills. I support business. I support good walkable streets. I have seen problems as I walked these streets campaigning. I pledge to work on all these issues. I am concerned with City issues. One is Childcare and affordable housing. I worked with Habitat for Humanity. We can do some simple things like more dense housing along mass transit lines. Qualifications: Service, Attorney, helped provide free legal services to Hispanic community.

POLLY HART: My name is Polly Hart (only woman on the ballot.) I am a resident of Capitol Hill, involved in Community Activism for years, and have served in my Community Council. I have a BA in artistic ? and a MA in Historical Preservation. I am a member of Salt Lake redevelopment. I am a back-county skier and a mountain biker. So why do want to vote for me? We have different ideas, but we want someone who will listen to all sides of the issues and work her fingers to the bone. First candidate to join the race and talked to all people. We walked the District and I worked my fingers to the bone. I have been working 14-hour days for this campaign. Thank you for your time.

ERIC JERGENSEN: I am thrilled to be her tonight. I moved here about 12 years ago, and about 9 years ago, our landlord told us he was selling the home and told us to look for another one. We looked every where for a home, and we decided that what we really wanted was right here. We wanted diversity, not homogeny. We wanted friendly people who are willing to work together, who could work together to find solutions. We went back to the landlord and asked if we could buy the house. We love this area. I am running because I believe there are things we can do to make it a better place. We can create neighborhoods that are conducive to building camaraderie. Can the City Council help build a better neighborhood? Yes, it is there to give us support to do our job as neighbors. There is much we can do, and we can work with the City to make life better for all of us. As to qualifications, I was Capitol Hill Community Council Chairman for 4 years, and on the Salt Lake City Transportation Advisory Board in an effort to find solutions to make sure we have safe streets. Everything that hits you on the Avenues hits us on Capitol Hill just 5 minutes earlier. We need to protect our environment, and watershed, and beautiful foothills area. I am on the Board for Utah Society for Environmental Education, and we are teaching kids at a young age to love and protect their environment. I have been involved in the Arts, on the Board on the Gina Bachauer Piano Competition, making sure that was open to all. If we work together, we can solve the problems. We can make it an enriching, wonderful neighborhood.

JON SCHUMAN: I came here to 39 years ago, delivered in LDS Hospital. Moved to Sugarhouse, and then got married we decided that we wanted to be in this area. We moved to Federal Heights. I am a facilitator. I help people who are looking for investment money. I understand how difficult it is to balance a budget. I feel frustration with the City seeing the decline in downtown, and seeing all the traffic problems. The university is not a good neighbor, wanting to expand. We need to revitalize Main Street. We need to work with the Gateway. I have seen ideas that work in other areas. One idea is the Photo-cop, which in other areas of the Country work well. Nobody speeds. The streets are safer, and we could free up our Police.

QUESTIONS: HOW MUCH TIME WILL YOU DEVOTE EACH WEEK TO CITY WORK?

  1. CARROLL: I am supporting a family, but I will give all the time necessary.
  2. COROON: Whatever it takes.
  3. POLLY HART: I am self-employed. People said it took 30 hours a week. I will spend that time.
  4. JEGREONSEN: Whatever it takes. We need to set priorities. Civic involvement has always been important to me. My family is also important. If I have to take time away from family, for that moment, fine. Then I make it up later.
  5. SCHUMANN: Family is important. But I can operate on a little amount of sleep.

WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR IMPORTANT ISSUES WHERE YOU HAVE SUPPORTED MAYOR ANDERSON, OR NOT SUPPORTED THE MAYOR?

  1. CARROLL: I like what he has done trying to bring people together. But I don't agree with his combative style. Example: trains - they are important, but don't agree on going out to sue people to get them to run when and where he wants them.
  2. CARROON: I like his style, and like what he is trying to do for the City. I disagree with him on his idea to not put housing on Library Block.
  3. HART: I support the Mayor on his issue of Main Street, and trying to revitalize it. I have a hard time with his management style. He does not compromise. He is unable to allow his people to do their jobs, which makes if difficult.
  4. JERGENSEN: I have interacted with the Mayor on a number of issues on solid neighborhood concerns. We were able to go to the Mayor and find an advocate in these issues, which is good. In some ways the Mayor in confrontive and divisive. It makes sense to not make enemies, and we need to work together.
  5. SCHUMAN: I agree with his concern over Main Street, but I have a problem with his being so down on Gateway. They need to work together. He does not delegate. On several issues he went and solved a problem himself instead. Is that a good use of a Mayor's time?

WHAT IS YOUR POSITION IN REGARDS TO CHANGING LIQUOR LAWS?

  1. CARROLL: We get a bad rap on the liquor laws. It is not hard to get a drink here. I don't support a beer garden on someone's front lawn.
  2. CARROON: If you can't get a drink in this town you are not thirsty. We need to change Club laws. They are confusing to people. We need to make them clearer and less confusing to visitors.
  3. HART: The laws have been changed so much that why does it matter if we change them more? Clubs want to stay open longer than one hours after they stop serving liquor. I am always open to new ideas.
  4. JERGENSEN: They have been changed may times. Should they be changed? That is up to the City. Should they me made more clear? Yes. Made more open? Not necessarily. Mayor wanted to turn City Creek into Beer Garden for the Olympics. I said that they should not be in residential areas. We worked that out so it is being held in a nonresidential area.
  5. SCHUMAN: There is a perception of the laws that is not accurate. We need to do away with the perception that we are too tight. We need to change places where it was needed. I would support change.
DO YOU SUPPORT THE LEGACY HIGHWAY? WHY OR WHY NOT?
  1. SCHMANN: Absolutely not. It will get more pollution. Minimize the numbers of vehicles by less roads.
  2. JERGENSEN: I agree with Jon. We looked at a west highway as part of a transportation plan, but is was not good. But the plan for Legacy Highway is insane. If we are trying to create an environmental area, why would we build a road right through our wet lands? If we build more roads we will get more cars. Mass transit is the only reasonable solution.
  3. CAROON: Lets not spend our money on making roads. Let's spend it on mass transit.
  4. CARROLL: The Legacy Highway is crazy. More roads mean more cars. We need to avoid L.A. Traffic and use mass transit.
  5. HART: I agree.

WOULD YOU CHANGE SEXUAL ORIENTATION LAWS SO THEY WILL NOT BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IN CITY GOVERNMENT?

  1. CARROON: I would support passing an ordinance.
  2. HART: I would work very hard to get sexual orientation into the code. I have been very clear on this issue.
  3. JERGENSEN: Any discrimination is improper. The current ordinance says that any discrimination is illegal. It is good language. We need to attack discrimination, but we do not need to set up special classes of people. Once you start making classes, you run the risk of leaving someone out. We do not need to set up classes.
  4. SCHMANN: I agree with Jergensen. The more classes we set up, the more we leave out.
  5. CARROLL: I am opposed to any discrimination, including sexual orientation. I do not think that we need to set up a special class for sexual orientation.

WE HAVE CONTINUOUS REBUILDING, TEARING DOWN, AND STILL NO PARKING. WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO REVITALIZE MAIN STREET?

  1. HART: The City has done a study. Plenty of parking for businesses downtown. No one knows where you are going to park and shop. They are looking into a Unified-parking sticker.
  2. JERGENSEN: Often it seems that every inch is under construction. I was in a City Planning meeting where they talked about three major areas downtown and in the Avenues that was being considered simultaneously for construction. And how are you going to get around without going in one of those areas. We have to see. No, there is not enough parking in the City. A far a building up the City economy, we need to bring clean businesses in our City, and we need to let people know what a great place this is to live and work.
  3. SCHMANN" - I have a Downtown office. I see so much construction. The City needs to work with the Communities to make sure that all the streets are not in construction at the same time. We need to revitalize downtown. I think we are on the right track, put tables out. Looks lived in. Main street needs parking there.
  4. CARROLL: I support the Universal-parking sticker. I am also distressed about the construction. I have to cross 4th Street, and it is so much trouble. I think that we need to coordinate so that not all projects are happening at once. We need to encourage more mass transit.
  5. CAROON: I agree with all that has been said. Get people to walk or take mass transit.

PARKING PROBLEMS IN THE AVENUES: BUSINESS HAS BLOCKED OUR DRIVEWAY IN GOING TO CACHINAS.

  1. JERGANSON: We have something bigger than Cachinas, we have the LDS Conference Center. Our neighborhood became a parking lot. So we got the neighbors together and said lets get the City and the Church and come up with some kind of solution. We are making some progress. We can find the solutions. It is walk or shuttle? There is an solution to each problem, and we can work together to find it.
  2. SCHUMANN: We need to find a little more parking on the strip between Cachinas and ___ so that neighbors don't have people blocking their driveways.
  3. CARROLL: It is a lack of courtesy parking in someone's driveway. We had a parking enforcement on Sunday. But still people were parking illegal. People need to be more polite, have more courtesy.
  4. CAROON: I am a proponent of small business, so I don't want to discriminate against them. Businesses need to make it clear to patrons. Also "resident permitting" in some areas is a god idea.
  5. HART: Permits are difficult. We need to have the enforcement come and ticket people.

WHERE WILL YOU FIND THE MONEY TO KEEP SCHOOLS OPEN WITHOUT RAISING TAXES?

  1. SCHUMANN: I don't have a good grip on where the City is spending its money. If the City wants to put up money, then the whole budget issue needs to be looked at.
  2. CARROLL: Closing Lowell is a catastrophe. The reason we have a diverse neighborhood is partly because of that school. We should not spend City money, but we need to see that Lowell is not disadvantaged. The fight is not over. I am not in favor of increasing taxes.
  3. CAROON: Karen Derrick said we need to work with the City to plan on how to keep our schools open. We need better to plan where we allow building so that we can put housing where schools are.
  4. HART: The only tax that could be raised is sales tax. Not likely to happen. Real Estate taxes that go to some areas could instead go back to the neighborhood. City could work it out so that their section of the taxes is not given up.
  5. JERGENSEN: I think that it is a tragedy that they voted to close Lowell. I worked with Derrick and Black about the school closure issue. We have not closed the book on Lowell. The City cannot do anything directly, but they can do other things. There are other things to look at. We can take the leadership to suggest other ideas.

WHAT IS APPROPRIATE USE OF THE BLOCK IF LOWELL IS USED?

  1. CARROLL: We area sitting on the old Ensign school land. Commercial Development is not appropriate.
  2. CARROON: I would love to see it stay as a school. Or we can use it for childcare or other community uses.
  3. HART: The school district will not sell it at this point. They are trying to get another school to use it. Otherwise, make it a community center.
  4. JERGENSEN: Heaven forbid that Lowell be closed. If it is, there are many wonderful things that it can be used for that would strengthen the neighborhood. It could be a Music school, after-school tutoring, athletic things. We would have to do some brainstorming and use our imagination, but given lots of good effort that school could be used to benefit the neighborhoods.
  5. SCHUMANN: They have no intention to sell it. It may be used again.

PLEASE EXPRESS YOUR POSITION ON MUNICIPAL WAGES THAT LIFT CITY EMPLOYEES ABOVE THE FEDERAL POVERTY LEVEL.

  1. CARROLL: I don't know enough on this subject to tell you
  2. CARROON: I saw our City workers at the soup kitchen. I want to see wages that are fair. I don't want budget deficit.
  3. HART: Of course I would support such a measure. I would want all employees paid well.
  4. JERGENSEN: We would all want our City Staff to be adequately paid. Yes. The next issue is what we do about other companies that contract with the City to get them to provide a living wage. In our company we spend a great deal of time seeing that we give benefits and wages that the employees can live, grown, and advance and continue their education on. We have great employees and almost no turnover because of this. We need to encourage other companies around City to do the same.
  5. SCHUMAN: I would not want to legislate this, but have the market place taking care of it.

THE AMERICAN POLITICAL SYSTEM IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE OF A FARCE. ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT ARE NO LONGER SERVING AND REPORTING TO THE CONSTITUENTS, BUT ONLY TO THE SPECIAL INTERESTS. CAN YOU CONVINCE ME THAT YOU WILL PROTECT THE REAL CONSTITUENTS?

  1. CAROON: Hats off Tom Rogan in this area. I call him often and he always has some great ideas on how to solve it often it is things I need to do. The way we make sure that the little guy gets his voice heard is letting our phones be open. Come to the Community Councils and speak up.
  2. HART: It is harder for people on a local level to get bought out, but many special interest do contribute to our elections. I only take money from small businesses and individuals. Ethics are the bottom line.
  3. JERGENSEN: The beauty is what is happening tonight. There are no special interests - we are here discussing issues that are important to you. We need to change the face of multinational politics, which is unlikely. But with you here, and with us as members of this District, we need to listen, and be open, and serve our constituents, as we are elected to do. When we stop listening, we will be in trouble. I pledge to always be open and to listen and respond to your concerns.
  4. SCHUMAN: I got into this race because it is not partisan. I am available for my clients, 24 ours a day, 7 days a week. It will be the same with my constituents if I am elected. You should always take a phone call from a constituent.
  5. CARROLL: We have the tradition of getting together and talking and asking our community Council chairperson to do things. And they usually do. I began by saying I listen. That stands.

OPEN FORUM: COMMET: We appreciate those who are working on the Street Fair. We have worked on it ourselves for the past few years, decorating, getting tables and chairs. We think it is great. But this year we have a concern. We just learned that there are plans to have a beer garden in the middle of the street fair. Our view of alcohol has dramatically changed since a drunk driver killed our grandson. We have been very involved in these issues, and we now have a much broader perspective of what really happens when you drink. It is not as harmless as we all thought. Therefore, we are opposed to having a beer garden in our Street Fair for the following reasons:

  1. It is in appropriate at a child's function. It is the wrong place and gives the wrong message to youth - that they cannot have fun without alcohol.
  2. It presents a great liability for the GACC Board - we can be held liable as a sponsoring organization. The people serving have a million-dollar bond, and the Beer Company has a three million-dollar bond, but the way the law is written the GACC as a sponsoring organization can be held liable.
  3. I have seen first hand the effects of alcohol addiction, and know that those who are trying to kick the addiction make it a practice to not go to paces where they would be tempted to drink. We have not advertised a beer garden and it makes the Street Fair an "unsafe" place for recovering alcoholics.
  4. Doesn't fit our Avenues image of preserving and making life and our surroundings better. I got this SPECT Scan image from Dr Amen (brainplace.com) of a healthy brain and one that had been subjected to alcohol, and you can see that it is riddled with holes where no electrical impulse work. Why would we in the Avenues want to serve beer, and encourage our people to drink it, and make money off them, at our functions simply because it is legal and socially acceptable, when we now know that it destroys brain cells?

MOTION: Therefore, I make a motion that we eliminate the beer garden from the Avenues Street Fair. - Seconded by someone. DISCUSSION COMMENT: Can we take a vote on an issue that was not advertised before hand? COMMENT: I am on the Street Fair Committee. The Street Fair committee is governed by the Community Council, so we need to take your direction and is it appropriate to discuss and vote on issues that are important to you. COMMENT: I think it is too close to the activity to cancel it. COMMENT: It is never too late to cancel it. COMMENT: If you want to cancel it, you should give a vote, so that is more binding on the Committee, and they will have a reason for canceling it. COMMENT: There is a lot of potential liability. Can we be added to the policy? COMMET: The Beer Garden has their insurance, I wrote the policy. COMMENT: As a mother of young children, people who are drinking and then get in their cars and go down or up hill, and if any drunk drivers from our function get in an accident, it will reflect on our community. I am opposed to it. COMMENT: Serving alcohol at the street fair is a very big deal. Who ever gave the Board the authority to authorize a beer garden. COMMENT: The Board illegally voted to support it. They by-laws do not allow them to vote on such a matter. COMMENT: We were just endorsing the Street Fair Committee's decision and didn't see that as an illegal vote. COMMENT: This Community Council is a better representation of the views of the Community that is the Board, and there are a lot more of us here. Lets take a vote and see what the consensus is and then go with that. COMMENT: We could vote not to have it this year, and then advertise and take a vote on it next year. COMMENT: Who says the vote will be against it. You haven't take a vote yet. CHAIR COMMENT: I'm not sure of the Bylaws. Richard Leonard, as past chair can we take a vote on an issue that has not been previously advertised. REPLY: Yes we have done that in the past. CHAIR COMMENT: Would you rephrase your motion to state that this is an unadvertised vote, and that you recommend that we eliminate a beer garden at the street fair? MOTION: I make a motion that the Community Council take a vote on a concern that was previously unannounced but needs attention, that we eliminate the beer garden this year from our Street Fair. VOTE: 56 in favor of not having a beer garden at the street fair. 24 in favor of having the beer garden. CHAIR: We will take that motion and forward it as a recommendation to the Street Fair Committee.

MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:10 P.M.

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